Comments on: Ah, the deal http://razarumi.com/2009/04/18/ah-the-deal/ Just another WordPress site Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:58:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Shaheryar Ali http://razarumi.com/2009/04/18/ah-the-deal/#comment-10617 Shaheryar Ali Wed, 22 Apr 2009 09:23:05 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1421#comment-10617 Thanks Raza for bringing that up, the reactions which i have seen to NYT report are "scandalous" to say the least. We have known this fact for the long time, Rahim Ullah YousafZai had written on it long before. Thats how a movement is explained. I gave a long comment somewhere else i think its appropriate to revise it here as well "Regarding the NYT report and the accompanying fuss and passionate denials by some progressives[for the fear of staining the good name of class struggle], its rather ironic to note the ignorance of most of the Pakistani Left and intellectuals about Left wing ideas and politics. No insurgency or political agitation can take place without class contradiction. All history is history of class struggle, Marx himself self said but not all history is progressive is it? Its this dogmatism of Pakistani left which fails to see this point. They dont know anything about Fascism. Fascism is a genuinely popular movement according to Left wing theory as oppose to artificial phenomenon, Fascism has its base in Petty bourgeoisie and lumpan proletariat, the slums , fascism is obsessed with National pride , is absolute enemy of communism and social-democracy and Left wing labor movement,is supported by conservative democratic parties, Army, state and most importantly Big businesses and Capitalism. To have a firm base it always has a “socialist rhetoric”, Mussolini started as a socialist and name of Hitler’s party was “National Socialist Party”. This must clearly be understood that its always a rhetoric, fascism annihilates all socialist tradition and labour movement , it in name of national honour and rapid progress advocates class collaboration , guarantees cheap labour , rhetorically make labour a hero for giving sweat and blood for the “nation” but keeps him a exploited laborer. Fascism always rises when the traditional people’s parties and reformist social democrats adopt a collaborationist stand , refuse to enforce economic redistribution and adopt policies of popular fronts [alliances with capitalist bourgeois parties to stop fascism etc] which paralyzes them , stop them from following their socialist agenda and follow bourgoies agenda, than fascists appear “radical” and “socialist resisters” to a middle classes and section of primitive lumpan proletariat who gives the movement a popular base, Fascism takes control democratically, by eroding authority of weak popular alliance governments, situation deteriorates , state start conceding authority, till time comes when government is offered to Fascists by Army and conservatives and bitterly divided left [accusing each other of being social-fascist] to save the nation, to bring it out of humiliation, to restore its sovereignty, to save nation from corrupt politicians who are agents of imperialism. Thats exactly how Fascism comes, thats how it came in Italy and Germany and as you can see clearly is coming to Pakistan as we speak, fill in names PPP, ANP on one side, civil society , the ex stalinists [bitterly fighting with eachother, calling each other fascists], PML-N, JI and their pro taliban rhetoric, bitterness in urban middle classes [country has gone to dogs n Zardari has sold the nation to USA] , Mantra of Pakistani nationalism, honour and pride , defeated and demoralized reformists conceding state authority , the ingredients are there. Who funded Lal Masjid? traders and who fund Madrassa, our Industrialists. National Bourgoies supported Hitler for they needed peace n stability, control of communist unions--] Thanks Raza for bringing that up, the reactions which i have seen to NYT report are “scandalous” to say the least. We have known this fact for the long time, Rahim Ullah YousafZai had written on it long before. Thats how a movement is explained. I gave a long comment somewhere else i think its appropriate to revise it here as well
“Regarding the NYT report and the accompanying fuss and passionate denials by some progressives[for the fear of staining the good name of class struggle], its rather ironic to note the ignorance of most of the Pakistani Left and intellectuals about Left wing ideas and politics. No insurgency or political agitation can take place without class contradiction. All history is history of class struggle, Marx himself self said but not all history is progressive is it? Its this dogmatism of Pakistani left which fails to see this point. They dont know anything about Fascism. Fascism is a genuinely popular movement according to Left wing theory as oppose to artificial phenomenon, Fascism has its base in Petty bourgeoisie and lumpan proletariat, the slums , fascism is obsessed with National pride , is absolute enemy of communism and social-democracy and Left wing labor movement,is supported by conservative democratic parties, Army, state and most importantly Big businesses and Capitalism. To have a firm base it always has a “socialist rhetoric”, Mussolini started as a socialist and name of Hitler’s party was “National Socialist Party”. This must clearly be understood that its always a rhetoric, fascism annihilates all socialist tradition and labour movement , it in name of national honour and rapid progress advocates class collaboration , guarantees cheap labour , rhetorically make labour a hero for giving sweat and blood for the “nation” but keeps him a exploited laborer. Fascism always rises when the traditional people’s parties and reformist social democrats adopt a collaborationist stand , refuse to enforce economic redistribution and adopt policies of popular fronts [alliances with capitalist bourgeois parties to stop fascism etc] which paralyzes them , stop them from following their socialist agenda and follow bourgoies agenda, than fascists appear “radical” and “socialist resisters” to a middle classes and section of primitive lumpan proletariat who gives the movement a popular base, Fascism takes control democratically, by eroding authority of weak popular alliance governments, situation deteriorates , state start conceding authority, till time comes when government is offered to Fascists by Army and conservatives and bitterly divided left [accusing each other of being social-fascist] to save the nation, to bring it out of humiliation, to restore its sovereignty, to save nation from corrupt politicians who are agents of imperialism. Thats exactly how Fascism comes, thats how it came in Italy and Germany and as you can see clearly is coming to Pakistan as we speak, fill in names PPP, ANP on one side, civil society , the ex stalinists [bitterly fighting with eachother, calling each other fascists], PML-N, JI and their pro taliban rhetoric, bitterness in urban middle classes [country has gone to dogs n Zardari has sold the nation to USA] , Mantra of Pakistani nationalism, honour and pride , defeated and demoralized reformists conceding state authority , the ingredients are there. Who funded Lal Masjid? traders and who fund Madrassa, our Industrialists. National Bourgoies supported Hitler for they needed peace n stability, control of communist unions–]

]]> By: Le Mystique http://razarumi.com/2009/04/18/ah-the-deal/#comment-10588 Le Mystique Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:15:12 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1421#comment-10588 The zillion rupee question is: 'who will bell the cat'? The zillion rupee question is: ‘who will bell the cat’?

]]> By: Le Mystique http://razarumi.com/2009/04/18/ah-the-deal/#comment-10587 Le Mystique Mon, 20 Apr 2009 10:11:27 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1421#comment-10587 It was hard for me to believe my hears when the a copenhagen-based mosque's paksitani mullah was telling us - the pakistani nimazis that we better not watch TV and read any newspapers as these are all tools of promoting obscenity. You can imagine what kind of mental brain wash a kid (who cant afford to enroll even in a government's school due to povery) learns when he joins a local maddrassah (which provides him free food, free accommodation and free 'education'). ------------------------ No one in their right state of mind can align with taleban using the social injustices of the state as an excuse. The reason many, including me, talk about the above-mentioned NYT article is that it points to something is is depriving us - the patriots and the concerned - from the much-needed support of the rural populations. You are right when you question as to how or why this support is not seen in other areas despite the fact that pretty much whole country is suffering from the same social injustices. I really hope that the taleban never get as strong as it once was in Afghanistan and that it never gets support from anyone and everyone. I might be totally wrong about this being a lay man and not a political or a military analyst but... right now Talebans groups are pre-dominantly guerilla groups... even if they are not if/when (God forbid) they decide to invade the much settled areas of Pakistan, they will surely need guerrilla warfare tactics. For such guerialla activities they will definitely need the support of the local poor lot to be able to carry out the activities. Right now our mental state as a nation is such that we are prone to accepting extremely fundamentalist or extremely liberal fascist idealogies. Both are wrong. Moderation is the key. And we need to reach to the root of the problems in order to be able to stop people from falling pray to extremist philosophies. If there is justice in the country, no one will ever be manipulated by any anti-state elements. Religious extremism is at least a 2 decades old problem. Hence we need a short-term strategy for coping with the talebans, and we also need a long-term strategy for nurturing moderate and modern thinking in the whole nation. It was hard for me to believe my hears when the a copenhagen-based mosque’s paksitani mullah was telling us – the pakistani nimazis that we better not watch TV and read any newspapers as these are all tools of promoting obscenity.

You can imagine what kind of mental brain wash a kid (who cant afford to enroll even in a government’s school due to povery) learns when he joins a local maddrassah (which provides him free food, free accommodation and free ‘education’).

————————

No one in their right state of mind can align with taleban using the social injustices of the state as an excuse.

The reason many, including me, talk about the above-mentioned NYT article is that it points to something is is depriving us – the patriots and the concerned – from the much-needed support of the rural populations.

You are right when you question as to how or why this support is not seen in other areas despite the fact that pretty much whole country is suffering from the same social injustices. I really hope that the taleban never get as strong as it once was in Afghanistan and that it never gets support from anyone and everyone.

I might be totally wrong about this being a lay man and not a political or a military analyst but… right now Talebans groups are pre-dominantly guerilla groups… even if they are not if/when (God forbid) they decide to invade the much settled areas of Pakistan, they will surely need guerrilla warfare tactics.

For such guerialla activities they will definitely need the support of the local poor lot to be able to carry out the activities.

Right now our mental state as a nation is such that we are prone to accepting extremely fundamentalist or extremely liberal fascist idealogies. Both are wrong. Moderation is the key. And
we need to reach to the root of the problems in order to be able to stop people from falling pray to extremist philosophies.

If there is justice in the country, no one will ever be manipulated by any anti-state elements.

Religious extremism is at least a 2 decades old problem. Hence we need a short-term strategy for coping with the talebans, and we also need a long-term strategy for nurturing moderate and modern thinking in the whole nation.

]]> By: Aasem Bakhshi http://razarumi.com/2009/04/18/ah-the-deal/#comment-10586 Aasem Bakhshi Mon, 20 Apr 2009 04:23:11 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1421#comment-10586 Raza Bhai, It is indeed sad to see this after 61 years but we are gloomy because its our home and identity. In a greater sociological perspective, however, I am pushed to think whether the whole idea and the ideal on which it was based was not efficacious. A genuine but inefficacious idea that is. I believe that the rules governing the civilizations and cultures do work on a limited scale too. Its hard to turn the cycle back once the downward slope starts. I am not at all pessimistic but that is how it is. The moment of grace is passed, in my humble opinion. wassalam -Aasem Raza Bhai,

It is indeed sad to see this after 61 years but we are gloomy because its our home and identity. In a greater sociological perspective, however, I am pushed to think whether the whole idea and the ideal on which it was based was not efficacious. A genuine but inefficacious idea that is.

I believe that the rules governing the civilizations and cultures do work on a limited scale too. Its hard to turn the cycle back once the downward slope starts. I am not at all pessimistic but that is how it is. The moment of grace is passed, in my humble opinion.

wassalam
-Aasem

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