Comments on: Unfullfiled Civic Longing http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/ Just another WordPress site Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:58:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: kaustubh http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-9037 kaustubh Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:06:17 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-9037 I searched for the article by Pitras Bukhari(Lahore ka jaghrafia: The Geography of Lahore)..i got lots of information about the person, thanks for introducing me to him, but couldnt get the article. Actually i got one but its in arabic i cant read. Can someone give me a link to english version or in english transcript...thanks rahega I searched for the article by Pitras Bukhari(Lahore ka jaghrafia: The Geography of Lahore)..i got lots of information about the person, thanks for introducing me to him, but couldnt get the article. Actually i got one but its in arabic i cant read. Can someone give me a link to english version or in english transcript…thanks rahega

]]> By: milieu http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8969 milieu Thu, 25 Dec 2008 11:59:00 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8969 <i>Public itself is “bad” and takes to “hate mongering” in a very natural way. THAT psyche has to be understood. India-Pakistan relations are unreal and extremely fragile.</i> I think this is a fundamental misconception which is not supported by historical evidence. The mob is a destructive entity but its fury subsides quickly. But if you have more power centers, it prevents any one authority to sacrifice the interest of the majority for its own. I think that if there is democracy (even if its admittedly inferior kind as practiced in India but still far superior to any other form), we might find more cheap jingoism etc but might be less afraid of a war breaking out because there will be saner voices who can act statesmanlike. But if there is a concentration of power, that powerful force can either become blinded by its own power or for its own self-interest can start something like a war. Public itself is “bad” and takes to “hate mongering” in a very natural way. THAT psyche has to be understood. India-Pakistan relations are unreal and extremely fragile.
I think this is a fundamental misconception which is not supported by historical evidence. The mob is a destructive entity but its fury subsides quickly. But if you have more power centers, it prevents any one authority to sacrifice the interest of the majority for its own. I think that if there is democracy (even if its admittedly inferior kind as practiced in India but still far superior to any other form), we might find more cheap jingoism etc but might be less afraid of a war breaking out because there will be saner voices who can act statesmanlike. But if there is a concentration of power, that powerful force can either become blinded by its own power or for its own self-interest can start something like a war.

]]> By: Vandana http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8951 Vandana Wed, 24 Dec 2008 10:09:37 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8951 Arrey Dastagir yeh kya keh rahe ho........we should conquer both Pakistan and Bangladesh?? Ab kyon un do sovereign nations ko ammo de rahe ho to start saying that 'India wants to gobble us up'.Let them manage their countries as they see fit. And attacks always happen before elections but this time no electoral gains atleast in assembly elections for BJP.Hopefully things should remain the same in the national elections.Fingers crossed. Arrey Dastagir yeh kya keh rahe ho……..we should conquer both Pakistan and Bangladesh?? Ab kyon un do sovereign nations ko ammo de rahe ho to start saying that ‘India wants to gobble us up’.Let them manage their countries as they see fit.

And attacks always happen before elections but this time no electoral gains atleast in assembly elections for BJP.Hopefully things should remain the same in the national elections.Fingers crossed.

]]> By: Dastagir http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8948 Dastagir Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:52:28 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8948 A vast majority of Pakistanis do NOT want war with India. A vast majority of Indians too do NOT want war with Pakistan either, but there are vested interests that WANT war. Hate is a USD 20 Billion business annually [Indo-Pak context i.e.]. There are no leaders / visionaries in India and Pakistan. They are falling into a trap. Real issues always get side-lined. The Mullah and the RSS cannot be contained... that is a fact of life. Law is very weak when faced by "perceptions"., and burdens of history. The RSS and Mullah will put SE Asia to flames. War will strengthen Taliban and RSS, as SE Asia goes to dogs. Manmohan Singh may gave a lack-lustre speech, but his action is not lack-lustre. He knows that war will destroy Pakistan, but it will also push India 20 years back in the bargain ! Hatred extracts a price ! One has to focus on the TIMING of the Mumbai blasts - to get to the root of the matter. The blasts took place just 2-3 days before Assembly Elections for Rajasthan/Chattisgarh/Delhi/MP and Tripura ! Just 2 days before ! Please focus on the timing... to get to the real culprits/masterminds. Who stands to BENEFIT from this act ? That is the "core" question... that will lead one to logical conclusions. Who stands to gain ? The Timing.... answers it all. Godhra : 50 Innocent Hindus burnt alive... followed by a genocide of 500 Innocent Muslims... PRECEDING elections ! There is a history of barbaric acts BEFORE elections... Sway people's EMOTIONS... divide society... and win elections !!! Parliamentary elections in India are scheduled Apr 09. Just 4 months to go. There is pressure on the Govt. of India to do something...atleast symbolic (tactical attack/ limited war). The Media [Corporate interests tied to War Industry] has injected jingoism in society. Look at the vernacular newspapers in Gujarati and Marathi... watch Star TV., Zee TV., and hear the language full of hatred and war-mongering. Cheap jingoism at display. They are comparing India to America ! What a fantasy ride. This is India's 9/11 they say ! The comparison is so unreal. Ground realities are so different. Yet... people re taken for a ride. Public itself is "bad" and takes to "hate mongering" in a very natural way. THAT psyche has to be understood. India-Pakistan relations are unreal and extremely fragile. Ideally war must be avoided at all costs. However, should there be a war., (God forbid)., then India must act in a statesmanly manner... it must conquer both Pakistan and Bangladesh.. and must show that it can manage a multi-ethnic state. That way it will add 360 million more muslims to the total... and that demography will definitely deter RSS from its joy-ride of hatred. Secular space can be created and it can GROW. Pakistanis have tried an Islamic State...What did the yget ? Halwa Puri ? RSS has tried Hindu-Raj (de-facto...and not de jure!)... and what has it given Hindus ? Halwa Puri ??? NO. So the 3 must unite. For 60 years., the parties have TRIED their hand at creating a laboratory. The experiments have proved to be disastrous. So destroy the 3 laboratories... and lets have one Secular.. Strong.. Educated.. INDIA.. Let Nehru's vision win... the final war of "ideas". For how long... How many generations more be wasted as "Hate-Fuel" . The best way to contain the Mullah and the RSS is to create / widen the secular space. As an "idea" it has the potential to combat the hate-factories of RSS and Mullah... individualy and/or even combined. A vast majority of Pakistanis do NOT want war with India. A vast majority of Indians too do NOT want war with Pakistan either, but there are vested interests that WANT war. Hate is a USD 20 Billion business annually [Indo-Pak context i.e.]. There are no leaders / visionaries in India and Pakistan. They are falling into a trap. Real issues always get side-lined. The Mullah and the RSS cannot be contained… that is a fact of life. Law is very weak when faced by “perceptions”., and burdens of history. The RSS and Mullah will put SE Asia to flames. War will strengthen Taliban and RSS, as SE Asia goes to dogs. Manmohan Singh may gave a lack-lustre speech, but his action is not lack-lustre. He knows that war will destroy Pakistan, but it will also push India 20 years back in the bargain !

Hatred extracts a price !

One has to focus on the TIMING of the Mumbai blasts – to get to the root of the matter. The blasts took place just 2-3 days before Assembly Elections for Rajasthan/Chattisgarh/Delhi/MP and Tripura ! Just 2 days before ! Please focus on the timing… to get to the real culprits/masterminds. Who stands to BENEFIT from this act ? That is the “core” question… that will lead one to logical conclusions.

Who stands to gain ? The Timing…. answers it all.

Godhra : 50 Innocent Hindus burnt alive… followed by a genocide of 500 Innocent Muslims… PRECEDING elections !

There is a history of barbaric acts BEFORE elections… Sway people’s EMOTIONS… divide society… and win elections !!!

Parliamentary elections in India are scheduled Apr 09. Just 4 months to go. There is pressure on the Govt. of India to do something…atleast symbolic (tactical attack/ limited war). The Media [Corporate interests tied to War Industry] has injected jingoism in society. Look at the vernacular newspapers in Gujarati and Marathi… watch Star TV., Zee TV., and hear the language full of hatred and war-mongering. Cheap jingoism at display. They are comparing India to America ! What a fantasy ride. This is India’s 9/11 they say ! The comparison is so unreal. Ground realities are so different. Yet… people re taken for a ride.

Public itself is “bad” and takes to “hate mongering” in a very natural way. THAT psyche has to be understood. India-Pakistan relations are unreal and extremely fragile.

Ideally war must be avoided at all costs. However, should there be a war., (God forbid)., then India must act in a statesmanly manner… it must conquer both Pakistan and Bangladesh.. and must show that it can manage a multi-ethnic state. That way it will add 360 million more muslims to the total… and that demography will definitely deter RSS from its joy-ride of hatred. Secular space can be created and it can GROW. Pakistanis have tried an Islamic State…What did the yget ? Halwa Puri ? RSS has tried Hindu-Raj (de-facto…and not de jure!)… and what has it given Hindus ? Halwa Puri ??? NO. So the 3 must unite. For 60 years., the parties have TRIED their hand at creating a laboratory. The experiments have proved to be disastrous. So destroy the 3 laboratories… and lets have one Secular.. Strong.. Educated.. INDIA..

Let Nehru’s vision win… the final war of “ideas”. For how long… How many generations more be wasted as “Hate-Fuel” . The best way to contain the Mullah and the RSS is to create / widen the secular space. As an “idea” it has the potential to combat the hate-factories of RSS and Mullah… individualy and/or even combined.

]]> By: Vandana http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8946 Vandana Wed, 24 Dec 2008 07:13:19 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8946 You could substitute the word Lahore with Delhi(while depicting the lifestyles and attitudes of the chattering classes) and it would be an apt description of the life of the preivilged Diliwallahs. You could substitute the word Lahore with Delhi(while depicting the lifestyles and attitudes of the chattering classes) and it would be an apt description of the life of the preivilged Diliwallahs.

]]> By: Dr.Daniyal Nagi http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8945 Dr.Daniyal Nagi Wed, 24 Dec 2008 06:57:38 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8945 Raza You are scaring me.I feel burnt out here in Europe and want to go back to my beloved lahore to recharge my self after being away for nearly 9 yrs. Paint me a rosey picture.As what I feel people have made their life difficult themselves.They should control their pace of life not the otherway around.Be simple and revert back to nature. The more you enter the rat race the more rat you become. Atleast thats what I believe, Daniyal Nagi Raza You are scaring me.I feel burnt out here in Europe and want to go back to my beloved lahore to recharge my self after being away for nearly 9 yrs.
Paint me a rosey picture.As what I feel people have made their life difficult themselves.They should control their pace of life not the otherway around.Be simple and revert back to nature.
The more you enter the rat race the more rat you become.
Atleast thats what I believe,
Daniyal Nagi

]]> By: Sidhusaaheb http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8941 Sidhusaaheb Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:31:24 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8941 If there was going to be war, it would've started by now, I think. BTW, you seem to be getting to know your home-town all over again. :D If there was going to be war, it would’ve started by now, I think.

BTW, you seem to be getting to know your home-town all over again. :D

]]> By: Nadima http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8937 Nadima Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:18:13 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8937 First two lines are the true depiction of the life of our generaton no doubt/ i enjoyed this article. First two lines are the true depiction of the life of our generaton no doubt/ i enjoyed this article.

]]> By: Le Mystique http://razarumi.com/2008/12/23/unfillfiled-civic-longing/#comment-8936 Le Mystique Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:05:17 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1236#comment-8936 More and more people are getting tired of the irresponsible role of both countries' media. Looking forward to read the paper here... And btw.. if you feel that burn out, you must take a break (although I can imagine how close impossible would it be..) More and more people are getting tired of the irresponsible role of both countries’ media.

Looking forward to read the paper here…

And btw.. if you feel that burn out, you must take a break (although I can imagine how close impossible would it be..)

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