Comments on: 9 Is Not 11 http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/ Just another WordPress site Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:58:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: milieu http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8869 milieu Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:23:13 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8869 Just introducing what might seem too much of internal politics here, but this is what I had in mind. http://greatbong.net/2008/12/16/the-algebra-of-infinite-fundamentalism/ Just introducing what might seem too much of internal politics here, but this is what I had in mind.
http://greatbong.net/2008/12/16/the-algebra-of-infinite-fundamentalism/

]]> By: milieu http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8866 milieu Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:58:07 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8866 I think the previous argument are the precisely simplistic view which prevents any action just like Ms. Arundhati Roys. West is the convenient bogeyman to keep the common man trapped in frustration and powerlessness. Most people blaming the West act as if they are explaining the reality of the situation of the poor common man who does not know the reality. But the reality is that the people out on the street is smarter than any of the pseudo-intellectuals! If you give him the opportunity of a free ballot, he will make wise choices like people in Pakistan have done by generally supporting moderate (even if corrupt people). I think the west is cluelses and does not control as the leftists would like to think. It is just quicker to adapt and make the situation to their advantage than their pontificating opponents. I think the previous argument are the precisely simplistic view which prevents any action just like Ms. Arundhati Roys. West is the convenient bogeyman to keep the common man trapped in frustration and powerlessness. Most people blaming the West act as if they are explaining the reality of the situation of the poor common man who does not know the reality. But the reality is that the people out on the street is smarter than any of the pseudo-intellectuals! If you give him the opportunity of a free ballot, he will make wise choices like people in Pakistan have done by generally supporting moderate (even if corrupt people).
I think the west is cluelses and does not control as the leftists would like to think. It is just quicker to adapt and make the situation to their advantage than their pontificating opponents.

]]> By: FM Shah http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8863 FM Shah Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:43:38 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8863 Whenever so called scholars/academics/experts (Raised/Funded by US/West) discuss any evil/wrong in our Muslim societies on Media especially TV, they never try to exactly locate the center of gravity of that issue. Their reasoning, and intended solutions are shallow and mostly in mars/space because they always try to avoid the context and history of the issue. What is unfolding now in whole Muslim World and especially Pakistan, is somewhat ‘creative chaos’ in almost all walk of life. If you have monopoly over world resources (Oil, Drugs, Technology, Banks, Media etc) , superiority in intelligence and multiple means of buying out loyalties of the readily saleable commodities (Karzai, Yasir Arrafat, Mahmood Abbas, Musharaf, Saudis, Benaizer, Nawaz, Zardari, Local Journalist, Generals, Bureaucrats, Businessmen etc.) like the US/West does, then the fog of chaos is a good way of confusing the enemy and continuing exploitation/deprivation by de-facto colonization even after so called freedom. One of the main reason for Muslim failure during last several decades in almost all fields is the result of well planned disorientation campaign. Multiple channels are used varying from brute force of carpet bombing/armed invasions to dubious soft tool like human rights, media, trade, MNCs, NGOs, globalization, academic dialogue and last of War on terror. However the only objective is to curtail Islam, whip Muslims and thrash them depending upon the situation and environment. We will take a common day example of the curse of Heroin. As it is normally believed that Herion like Terrorism popped out of blue from Pakistan Tribal Areas/Afghanistan. It is generally believed that simple tribal men and war lords are only responsible for menace of Heroin but never told the link between Afghan War, CIA, Heroin, BCCI and finance for US Stringers made by private MNCs. Heroin is prepared from morphine (extracted from opium) by boiling it with acetic anhydride, and then using a process that involves hydrochloric acid, strychnine, and caffeine. The most essential chemical for Heroin (i.e. acetic anhydride) is produced only in West, No Muslim country has any plant for producing acetic anhydride. Recently its import to Afghanistan through Karachi Afghan transit route under flag of NATO/US since 9/11 has increased exponentially. MNCs producing all such chemicals are making billions. Heroin was basically invented by BAYER Pharmaceutical/Agro MNCs. It is also operating in many countries like Pakistan and making Billions. CIA introduced Heroin in South America, Vietnam and Last of all Afghanistan/Pakistan. Hereon and present drug economy is very similar to Colonial era Opium trade of that era. Similarly all the business families (Mostly present ruling establishment in Indo/Pak/Bangla Desh) are those who acted as middle men for opium export to China. Most of them control II Chundrigar Road, Karachi/Bombay Stock exchange and Power Houses in IndoPak. Those past collaborators/supporters of past colonials and present day ruling elites will always pray anthems of US/West. Any voice or force raising against US/West is curbed with Iron hand, it may be Lawyers Movement or Red Mosques or Tribal Areas or Rag Tag Taliban. Please see the interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008) about opium wars of 1830s and 1850s and opium production in Bengal/Bombay by East India Company. This is not about blaming the US/West for our all problems. Muslims needs to set its own house in order but there is no question that the Heroin in Afghanistan, NWFP and Tribal area were almost nonexistent before CIA operation against Soviet Invasion. Similar terrorism, intolerance, lawlessness in Tribal Area is the direct product of the machinations of the local/international establishment powers that were based in Tribal region even before Afghan-Soviet War in 1970s. For we Muslims and Pakistani in particular, this is not a time for optimism. It’s better to be cautious now – even paranoid – than sorry later. The events in our society in general and tribal region in particular did not emerge from a void but are a continuation of a dirty game played since colonization and continues unabated, involving critical inside players and their outside allies. To draw a line in the sand, we should openly declare US/CIA directly responsible for creating/nourishing/sponsoring chaos, terror, lawlessness, drug economy in our regions. Regards FM Shah Interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008) http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7460682.stm Whenever so called scholars/academics/experts (Raised/Funded by US/West) discuss any evil/wrong in our Muslim societies on Media especially TV, they never try to exactly locate the center of gravity of that issue. Their reasoning, and intended solutions are shallow and mostly in mars/space because they always try to avoid the context and history of the issue.
What is unfolding now in whole Muslim World and especially Pakistan, is somewhat ‘creative chaos’ in almost all walk of life. If you have monopoly over world resources (Oil, Drugs, Technology, Banks, Media etc) , superiority in intelligence and multiple means of buying out loyalties of the readily saleable commodities (Karzai, Yasir Arrafat, Mahmood Abbas, Musharaf, Saudis, Benaizer, Nawaz, Zardari, Local Journalist, Generals, Bureaucrats, Businessmen etc.) like the US/West does, then the fog of chaos is a good way of confusing the enemy and continuing exploitation/deprivation by de-facto colonization even after so called freedom. One of the main reason for Muslim failure during last several decades in almost all fields is the result of well planned disorientation campaign. Multiple channels are used varying from brute force of carpet bombing/armed invasions to dubious soft tool like human rights, media, trade, MNCs, NGOs, globalization, academic dialogue and last of War on terror. However the only objective is to curtail Islam, whip Muslims and thrash them depending upon the situation and environment.
We will take a common day example of the curse of Heroin. As it is normally believed that Herion like Terrorism popped out of blue from Pakistan Tribal Areas/Afghanistan. It is generally believed that simple tribal men and war lords are only responsible for menace of Heroin but never told the link between Afghan War, CIA, Heroin, BCCI and finance for US Stringers made by private MNCs.
Heroin is prepared from morphine (extracted from opium) by boiling it with acetic anhydride, and then using a process that involves hydrochloric acid, strychnine, and caffeine. The most essential chemical for Heroin (i.e. acetic anhydride) is produced only in West, No Muslim country has any plant for producing acetic anhydride. Recently its import to Afghanistan through Karachi Afghan transit route under flag of NATO/US since 9/11 has increased exponentially. MNCs producing all such chemicals are making billions.
Heroin was basically invented by BAYER Pharmaceutical/Agro MNCs. It is also operating in many countries like Pakistan and making Billions. CIA introduced Heroin in South America, Vietnam and Last of all Afghanistan/Pakistan. Hereon and present drug economy is very similar to Colonial era Opium trade of that era.

Similarly all the business families (Mostly present ruling establishment in Indo/Pak/Bangla Desh) are those who acted as middle men for opium export to China. Most of them control II Chundrigar Road, Karachi/Bombay Stock exchange and Power Houses in IndoPak. Those past collaborators/supporters of past colonials and present day ruling elites will always pray anthems of US/West. Any voice or force raising against US/West is curbed with Iron hand, it may be Lawyers Movement or Red Mosques or Tribal Areas or Rag Tag Taliban. Please see the interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008) about opium wars of 1830s and 1850s and opium production in Bengal/Bombay by East India Company.

This is not about blaming the US/West for our all problems. Muslims needs to set its own house in order but there is no question that the Heroin in Afghanistan, NWFP and Tribal area were almost nonexistent before CIA operation against Soviet Invasion. Similar terrorism, intolerance, lawlessness in Tribal Area is the direct product of the machinations of the local/international establishment powers that were based in Tribal region even before Afghan-Soviet War in 1970s.
For we Muslims and Pakistani in particular, this is not a time for optimism. It’s better to be cautious now – even paranoid – than sorry later. The events in our society in general and tribal region in particular did not emerge from a void but are a continuation of a dirty game played since colonization and continues unabated, involving critical inside players and their outside allies.

To draw a line in the sand, we should openly declare US/CIA directly responsible for creating/nourishing/sponsoring chaos, terror, lawlessness, drug economy in our regions.

Regards

FM Shah

Interview of Indian Writer Amitav Gosh on BBC (23 June, 2008)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7460682.stm

]]> By: Topic: 9/11 - MyBlogLog http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8860 Topic: 9/11 - MyBlogLog Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:47:51 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8860 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] [...]

]]> By: Dastagir http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8848 Dastagir Wed, 17 Dec 2008 09:26:00 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8848 For India to survive : Ban RSS (and its off-shoots of hate). Arrest 100 hate-mongers and their financiers... and keep the 100-200 in house arrests. To project some sense of fairness... arrest 10-20 Maulanas too (10:1 ratio) ! Indians now have a choice. Save RSS or Save India. Both cannot go on. After the demolition of Babri Masjid in full public view., constitutionality / rule of law / LAW itself as a tool, has lost all meaning ! A kid knows what is the TRUE power of Law. That lawnessness... then 1992 Mumbai riots... then 2003 Gujarat Genocide... the images... and the fact that NO ACTION was taken against culprits ! What message does it send ? It sends a very clear message - that there is no law and order in India. Police tumhare saath hai.. jaao.. rape karo.. looto.. maaro.. kaato... Once that message goes., one cant put the genie in a bottle. It destroys 'GENERATIONS'. So to save India., the magnificent idea of "India" - RSS will have to be banned - its leaders [esp its financiers] placed under house arrest - and their freedom of speech (hate-mongering) curtailed. As an ancillary step, official-corruption (Non-governance) is an issue that touches the average Indian. So corruption has to be dealt with firmly. When an official is convicted of dis-proportionate assets., CONFISCATE those assets., and auction them. Proceeds from same to be credited to the State Treasury / Exchequer. The 2 steps (Ban and burying of RSS hate-factory + improved Governance) can "Save" India.... and the Idea of India. PAKISTAN : Ban the Jihadi Outfits. Eariler they were "Assets" to be used against India... IF / SHOULD a need arise. Now that threat from India is gone. These Jihadi Outfits cant be disciplined either. So how should they be tackled... they should be in Jails... or house arrest. Their freedom of speech (hate-mongering) must be completely halted. There should be an improvement in "Governance" (Good Governance)., so that the average Pakistani's faith in the "System" is re-assured. Otherwise he will take a gun or a stick., and seek justice for himself. CONCLUSION OF THE CASE: Non-State Actors (like the criminal gangs in Pakistan) and/or Semi-State Actors (like the criminal gangs of RSS in India)., will pull the eddifice of these 2 republics down. The Republics may not be perfect - they may be flawed - but atleast there is an eddifice... a structure. The criminal gangs (safforn/green) must be dealt with firmly... without any fear of backlash. Arrest Narendra Modi., Babu Bajrangi., Togadia., Bal Thackerey., Raj Thackerey, Singhal, Sadhus and Sadhvis... and call the army on the streets of India. Let there be a Fight... a Maha-Yuddha.. once and for all.. between forces of light and darkness. Sooner or later it has to happen.. so why not now ? If destruction is the destiny... Why not today... why wait for tomorrow ? (Jo kall guzarni hai.. mujh pey... Abhie Guzar Jaaye !!) Pakistan must do the same., and arrest all the Mullahs and the bigots without fear of a backlash of a communal holocaust. Call in the army... shoot-at-sight... and place these 100-200 gentlemen whose business/trade is "HATE"... and keep them under arrest for a life-time ! Any laxity shown to Sadhu/RSS/Maulvi/Bigot means.. weakening the "State". For India to survive : Ban RSS (and its off-shoots of hate). Arrest 100 hate-mongers and their financiers… and keep the 100-200 in house arrests. To project some sense of fairness… arrest 10-20 Maulanas too (10:1 ratio) ! Indians now have a choice. Save RSS or Save India. Both cannot go on. After the demolition of Babri Masjid in full public view., constitutionality / rule of law / LAW itself as a tool, has lost all meaning ! A kid knows what is the TRUE power of Law. That lawnessness… then 1992 Mumbai riots… then 2003 Gujarat Genocide… the images… and the fact that NO ACTION was taken against culprits ! What message does it send ? It sends a very clear message – that there is no law and order in India. Police tumhare saath hai.. jaao.. rape karo.. looto.. maaro.. kaato… Once that message goes., one cant put the genie in a bottle. It destroys ‘GENERATIONS’. So to save India., the magnificent idea of “India” – RSS will have to be banned – its leaders [esp its financiers] placed under house arrest – and their freedom of speech (hate-mongering) curtailed. As an ancillary step, official-corruption (Non-governance) is an issue that touches the average Indian. So corruption has to be dealt with firmly. When an official is convicted of dis-proportionate assets., CONFISCATE those assets., and auction them. Proceeds from same to be credited to the State Treasury / Exchequer. The 2 steps (Ban and burying of RSS hate-factory + improved Governance) can “Save” India…. and the Idea of India.

PAKISTAN : Ban the Jihadi Outfits. Eariler they were “Assets” to be used against India… IF / SHOULD a need arise. Now that threat from India is gone. These Jihadi Outfits cant be disciplined either. So how should they be tackled… they should be in Jails… or house arrest. Their freedom of speech (hate-mongering) must be completely halted. There should be an improvement in “Governance” (Good Governance)., so that the average Pakistani’s faith in the “System” is re-assured. Otherwise he will take a gun or a stick., and seek justice for himself.

CONCLUSION OF THE CASE:

Non-State Actors (like the criminal gangs in Pakistan) and/or Semi-State Actors (like the criminal gangs of RSS in India)., will pull the eddifice of these 2 republics down. The Republics may not be perfect – they may be flawed – but atleast there is an eddifice… a structure. The criminal gangs (safforn/green) must be dealt with firmly… without any fear of backlash. Arrest Narendra Modi., Babu Bajrangi., Togadia., Bal Thackerey., Raj Thackerey, Singhal, Sadhus and Sadhvis… and call the army on the streets of India. Let there be a Fight… a Maha-Yuddha.. once and for all.. between forces of light and darkness. Sooner or later it has to happen.. so why not now ?

If destruction is the destiny…
Why not today… why wait for tomorrow ?

(Jo kall guzarni hai.. mujh pey… Abhie Guzar Jaaye !!)
Pakistan must do the same., and arrest all the Mullahs and the bigots without fear of a backlash of a communal holocaust. Call in the army… shoot-at-sight… and place these 100-200 gentlemen whose business/trade is “HATE”… and keep them under arrest for a life-time !

Any laxity shown to Sadhu/RSS/Maulvi/Bigot means.. weakening the “State”.

]]> By: rambhai.com - 9 is not 11 http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8841 rambhai.com - 9 is not 11 Wed, 17 Dec 2008 07:32:39 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8841 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] 9 is not 11 Click Here for Original Story: http://www.razarumi.com posted by meribaat 14 hours ago [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] 9 is not 11 Click Here for Original Story: http://www.razarumi.com posted by meribaat 14 hours ago [...]

]]> By: Vandana http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8834 Vandana Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:21:39 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8834 The reason why many an average Hindu is wary of voting BJP to power is its RSS connections.The common man on the street knows well that he is the one who reaps the bitter harvest of divisive politics and uses his only weapon,his vote, to keep the undesirables out of power(atleast absolute power). The reason why many an average Hindu is wary of voting BJP to power is its RSS connections.The common man on the street knows well that he is the one who reaps the bitter harvest of divisive politics and uses his only weapon,his vote, to keep the undesirables out of power(atleast absolute power).

]]> By: Dastagir http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8830 Dastagir Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:05:26 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8830 Not one essay of the calibre and depth shown by Arundhati Roy was written by a Pakistani ! Anyways... Roy has identified plain truths that are known to everyone... down to the average man on the street. Only fact is, he is not articulate enough to word it., phrase it and arrange its sequence to arrive at a logical conclusion. RSS and the Mullah will join hands and destroy India and Pakistan. Hemant Karkare was exposing the ugly network of Hindutva Terror. The Prime-Minister in Waiting had started speaking against him in Public Meetings ! Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi was venting ire against him openly... and after a few days... Karkare is "eliminated". Was this a targeted elimination ? And to give it / add a touch of realism... there is collateral damage of 200 innocent lives ! Is the collateral damage a camaflouge... to hide the real targeted killing of Karkare ???? After Karkare., the avenue to explore the Hindutva angle to terror is permanently closed ! So all terrorists are Muslims... even though all muslims may not be terrorists ! That is re-inforced ! Have the Sadhus joined hands with (sub-contracted) the Mullahs to perpetuate acts of violence JUST BEFORE Elections ! Timing is crucial to understand the motive of the crime... in this case... just a few days before "elections". Who gains most thru this ugly act ? BJP and RSS. Its all very plain and simple... Only no one has the guts (or the means) to put it that plainly... just as brazenly as Arnab Goswami. Not one essay of the calibre and depth shown by Arundhati Roy was written by a Pakistani ! Anyways… Roy has identified plain truths that are known to everyone… down to the average man on the street. Only fact is, he is not articulate enough to word it., phrase it and arrange its sequence to arrive at a logical conclusion.

RSS and the Mullah will join hands and destroy India and Pakistan.

Hemant Karkare was exposing the ugly network of Hindutva Terror. The Prime-Minister in Waiting had started speaking against him in Public Meetings ! Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi was venting ire against him openly… and after a few days… Karkare is “eliminated”. Was this a targeted elimination ?

And to give it / add a touch of realism… there is collateral damage of 200 innocent lives ! Is the collateral damage a camaflouge… to hide the real targeted killing of Karkare ???? After Karkare., the avenue to explore the Hindutva angle to terror is permanently closed !

So all terrorists are Muslims… even though all muslims may not be terrorists ! That is re-inforced !

Have the Sadhus joined hands with (sub-contracted) the Mullahs to perpetuate acts of violence JUST BEFORE Elections !

Timing is crucial to understand the motive of the crime… in this case… just a few days before “elections”. Who gains most thru this ugly act ?

BJP and RSS.

Its all very plain and simple… Only no one has the guts (or the means) to put it that plainly… just as brazenly as Arnab Goswami.

]]> By: milieu http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8816 milieu Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:05:50 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8816 This is a remarkably good analysis by Ms Roy. Regarding her, the economist Jagdish Bhagwati had said that "her conclusions are more obvious than her reasoning" Hers is a strong voice which should be heard but ofcourse she is not the only authority. Someone quipped that after Mumbai, there is a war between jholawalas (a pejorative term for ppl with NGO leanings) and the Page 3 walas (again a pejorative for the celebrities). But India has lots of problem on its plate and perhaps it may or may not be solved, but what happens is that these things are picked up by unscrupulous elements across the border for propoganda to mislead impressionable minds. They do succeed in the short term but in the long term they are going (or perhaps even more unfortunately the innocent bystanders) to reap what they sow. This is a remarkably good analysis by Ms Roy. Regarding her, the economist Jagdish Bhagwati had said that “her conclusions are more obvious than her reasoning”
Hers is a strong voice which should be heard but ofcourse she is not the only authority. Someone quipped that after Mumbai, there is a war between jholawalas (a pejorative term for ppl with NGO leanings) and the Page 3 walas (again a pejorative for the celebrities).
But India has lots of problem on its plate and perhaps it may or may not be solved, but what happens is that these things are picked up by unscrupulous elements across the border for propoganda to mislead impressionable minds. They do succeed in the short term but in the long term they are going (or perhaps even more unfortunately the innocent bystanders) to reap what they sow.

]]> By: ZH http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8812 ZH Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:51:05 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8812 Profound and thoughtful! RA: Thansk for this post. Profound and thoughtful! RA: Thansk for this post.

]]> By: priya http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8804 priya Mon, 15 Dec 2008 02:28:32 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8804 Very good post ....is the world hearing? Very good post ….is the world hearing?

]]> By: MysticSaint http://razarumi.com/2008/12/14/9-is-not-11/#comment-8801 MysticSaint Sun, 14 Dec 2008 18:18:53 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/?p=1237#comment-8801 Excellent Article. Thanks for sharing it Raza. Wish only more voice like Arundhati is here in Today's world who can see and who has intellect to think. Excellent Article. Thanks for sharing it Raza.

Wish only more voice like Arundhati is here in Today’s world who can see and who has intellect to think.

]]>