Comments on: On Raja Paurava and Alexander http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/ Just another WordPress site Mon, 06 Feb 2012 08:58:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Jaya http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-12106 Jaya Thu, 20 Aug 2009 18:16:03 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-12106 Me as a supporter of ancient Indian history would definitely support Salman Rashid. The problem with we south west Asians are that we don't acknowledge our glorious past. For us every thing comes to an end with religion. Lets keep history and religion separately. There is only one true religion and i.e. Humanity. Why King Paurava or Akbar are still remembered because they promoted religion of Humanity!!! Me as a supporter of ancient Indian history would definitely support Salman Rashid. The problem with we south west Asians are that we don’t acknowledge our glorious past. For us every thing comes to an end with religion.

Lets keep history and religion separately. There is only one true religion and i.e. Humanity. Why King Paurava or Akbar are still remembered because they promoted religion of Humanity!!!

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By: Vandana http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7101 Vandana Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:27:22 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7101 It is said that, " without the past there can be no future." This article should be seen in that context and not be viewed through the prism of religion. Pakistan is Islamic, no questions about that but as the writer said , it did not descend neatly packaged thus some time around 750A.D.The people pf this land existed before that and followed different religions. Pakistanis are South Asians and not Arabs. It is said that, ” without the past there can be no future.” This article should be seen in that context and not be viewed through the prism of religion. Pakistan is Islamic, no questions about that but as the writer said , it did not descend neatly packaged thus some time around 750A.D.The people pf this land existed before that and followed different religions. Pakistanis are South Asians and not Arabs.

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By: Vandana http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7100 Vandana Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:06:33 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7100 God bless you Piya for your optimism.When all Hindus are not seen as conniving, idol worshipping infidels(as they were portrayed to Pakistanis) and when all Muslims stop looking like the temple plundering invaders of the past( to Hindus),then and then alone can we move down that road of friendship. God bless you Piya for your optimism.When all Hindus are not seen as conniving, idol worshipping infidels(as they were portrayed to Pakistanis) and when all Muslims stop looking like the temple plundering invaders of the past( to Hindus),then and then alone can we move down that road of friendship.

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By: piya g http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7099 piya g Mon, 13 Oct 2008 16:15:40 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-7099 I agree with the writer!! We have to akcnowledge our heroes. From Porus to Tipu Sultan to Ray Ahmed nawaz Kharal to Aziz Bhatti and a lot more :-) As long as Porus is concerned, I think he was a hero for our soil. You said Raja Dahir- with due respect Bin Kasim was another plunderer. It is how our history is presented to us and I think its all becuause of gaining some political benefits. It is also true that now we can not give name PRITHVI to any of our road but why????? because of our historians- no?? We needed to present hindus as evils so every hindu figure is evil for us- I am sure one day will come when we will be saying INDIA IS OUR BEST FRIEND and Indians will be saying the same for us- This all hetered is becasue our armies needs ROTI ROZI I agree with the writer!! We have to akcnowledge our heroes. From Porus to Tipu Sultan to Ray Ahmed nawaz Kharal to Aziz Bhatti and a lot more :-)
As long as Porus is concerned, I think he was a hero for our soil. You said Raja Dahir- with due respect Bin Kasim was another plunderer. It is how our history is presented to us and I think its all becuause of gaining some political benefits. It is also true that now we can not give name PRITHVI to any of our road but why????? because of our historians- no?? We needed to present hindus as evils so every hindu figure is evil for us- I am sure one day will come when we will be saying INDIA IS OUR BEST FRIEND and Indians will be saying the same for us- This all hetered is becasue our armies needs ROTI ROZI

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By: Step in Time Tours http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-5435 Step in Time Tours Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:45:43 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-5435 As a reply to question 3, Indeed the answer is not as obvious and as one would expect, it is actually a fairly complicated issue. Comparing Moorish Spain to Pakistani denial. All people from any civilization should never forget their roots because this is what their foundation relies on, to keep them with a strong purpose. Letting that become the be, and end all of your identity encourages fanaticism in the culture that one comes from other than the culture that you live in. In some ways this is good; but in other ways in the long term it ends in your society becoming weak, one of the strengths of Andalusian, Moorish society in the middle ages was the willingness of the Ummayyad Khalifat to absorb the culture of Spain itself; in the its willingness to create a distinct Western Muslim identity. They never negated what was there already; meaning they never made a subculture apart from the main culture they became a part of the culture. They accepted the good things and left the bad things from the original culture. Even the name Andalusia comes from the name; land of the Vandals the previous culture before the Moorish Arab influence the "al" from the Arabic represents the definite article meaning "The". Indeed for ethnic communities to survive in the West, needs to appreciate and respect their immediate past, but also to develop a clear ethical foundation on how Asians can survive long term, by developing a new culture were they can live adopting western ways of living that correspond to good character. As a reply to question 3, Indeed the answer is not as obvious and as one would expect, it is actually a fairly complicated issue. Comparing Moorish Spain to Pakistani denial. All people from any civilization should never forget their roots because this is what their foundation relies on, to keep them with a strong purpose. Letting that become the be, and end all of your identity encourages fanaticism in the culture that one comes from other than the culture that you live in.

In some ways this is good; but in other ways in the long term it ends in your society becoming weak, one of the strengths of Andalusian, Moorish society in the middle ages was the willingness of the Ummayyad Khalifat to absorb the culture of Spain itself; in the its willingness to create a distinct Western Muslim identity. They never negated what was there already; meaning they never made a subculture apart from the main culture they became a part of the culture. They accepted the good things and left the bad things from the original culture. Even the name Andalusia comes from the name; land of the Vandals the previous culture before the Moorish Arab influence the “al” from the Arabic represents the definite article meaning “The”.

Indeed for ethnic communities to survive in the West, needs to appreciate and respect their immediate past, but also to develop a clear ethical foundation on how Asians can survive long term, by developing a new culture were they can live adopting western ways of living that correspond to good character.

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By: Sidhusaaheb http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3839 Sidhusaaheb Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:09:30 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3839 BTW, I agree with Raza that the BJP and its <i>Sangh-parivaar</i> are, essentially, 'the other side of the same coin'. BTW, I agree with Raza that the BJP and its Sangh-parivaar are, essentially, ‘the other side of the same coin’.

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By: Sidhusaaheb http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3838 Sidhusaaheb Sat, 16 Feb 2008 15:05:05 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3838 It is interesting to note how those holding extremely negative views always cite the actions of those with similarly negative view points on 'the other side', in order to justify their own. 'Two wrongs do not make a right.' obviously does not ring a bell with them. :) It is interesting to note how those holding extremely negative views always cite the actions of those with similarly negative view points on ‘the other side’, in order to justify their own.

‘Two wrongs do not make a right.’ obviously does not ring a bell with them. :)

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By: Jahane Rumi | Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan- http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3836 Jahane Rumi | Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan- Sat, 16 Feb 2008 07:47:02 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3836 [...] MasoodComment on ?.na junoon raha na pari rahi - when neither you exist nor I exist by shehla MasoodComment on On Raja Paurava and Alexander by Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at BlogbhartiComment on On the ?death of Pakistani culture? by Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at [...] [...] MasoodComment on ?.na junoon raha na pari rahi – when neither you exist nor I exist by shehla MasoodComment on On Raja Paurava and Alexander by Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at BlogbhartiComment on On the ?death of Pakistani culture? by Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at [...]

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By: Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at Blogbharti http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3825 Buddha, the Taliban and Pakistan at Blogbharti Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:28:27 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3825 [...] will be a poorer place if these mad, roving fundamentalists would remove all the signs of our pre-Islamic heritage and ancient [...] [...] will be a poorer place if these mad, roving fundamentalists would remove all the signs of our pre-Islamic heritage and ancient [...]

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By: Shaheen Sultan Dhanji http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3389 Shaheen Sultan Dhanji Mon, 17 Dec 2007 01:05:39 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3389 Raza, this needs to go on Pak Tea House ! I second Shaheryar!! Raza, this needs to go on Pak Tea House ! I second Shaheryar!!

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By: Wang Daiyu http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3327 Wang Daiyu Thu, 06 Dec 2007 06:24:07 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3327 While some Muslims in China also try to like themselves to ancestors from the West, even these do not deny their 'Chineseness' and do feel proud of the history of all Chinese people. The phenomenon that you have mentioned is indeed strange given that most Muslims in the world actually live in South Asia! While some Muslims in China also try to like themselves to ancestors from the West, even these do not deny their ‘Chineseness’ and do feel proud of the history of all Chinese people. The phenomenon that you have mentioned is indeed strange given that most Muslims in the world actually live in South Asia!

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By: priya http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3326 priya Thu, 06 Dec 2007 02:48:49 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3326 lets honour the human qualities of a person whichever era it is and it does not depend on religion ,caste or creed......actually if you think in the broader sense there is no difference between us....we all praise and pray to one and only God....the omnipotent ,omnipresent and all merciful....THE GOD OF THE MULTIVERSE..... lets honour the human qualities of a person whichever era it is and it does not depend on religion ,caste or creed……actually if you think in the broader sense there is no difference between us….we all praise and pray to one and only God….the omnipotent ,omnipresent and all merciful….THE GOD OF THE MULTIVERSE…..

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By: nocturnal http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3325 nocturnal Wed, 05 Dec 2007 23:17:43 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3325 Mr. shaheryar Spainish inquisition started right after the muslim empire in 1481, Baghdad was the centre of knowledge and remarkable books were written there on Science and tech by the time when Spanish inquisition suppressing people from FRANCE to SOUTH AMERICA. Europe was still in DARK AGES while MULSIM sceintists were paving the way for modern science, Bughdad was the centre of KNOWLEDGE when european priests were still burning ppl at STAKE. Europe was the place where BRUNO (Gallileo's friend and scientist)was burned at stake for heretic thoughts. Where Gallileo was charged with heresey too for telling the world that earth revolves around the sun. He was sentenced to life sentence, he spent rest of his life in solitary confinement. GAlileo died in 1642, EUROPE wasnt that ENLIGHTENED as you wrote. While MUSLIM scientist were writing remarkable books on Science and tech , europe was in utter darkness. So get your facts right before writing anything on history. Mr. shaheryar

Spainish inquisition started right after the muslim empire in 1481, Baghdad was the centre of knowledge and remarkable books were written there on Science and tech by the time when Spanish inquisition suppressing people from FRANCE to SOUTH AMERICA.

Europe was still in DARK AGES while MULSIM sceintists were paving the way for modern science, Bughdad was the centre of KNOWLEDGE when european priests were still burning ppl at STAKE.

Europe was the place where BRUNO (Gallileo’s friend and scientist)was burned at stake for heretic thoughts.

Where Gallileo was charged with heresey too for telling the world that earth revolves around the sun. He was sentenced to life sentence, he spent rest of his life in solitary confinement.

GAlileo died in 1642, EUROPE wasnt that ENLIGHTENED as you wrote. While MUSLIM scientist were writing remarkable books on Science and tech , europe was in utter darkness.

So get your facts right before writing anything on history.

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By: Shaheryar Ali http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3324 Shaheryar Ali Wed, 05 Dec 2007 22:33:55 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3324 Spain , Spain and Spain------- What has been erased in Spain? Islam? There could be other sides and reasons as well, Reconquestia had a "nationalist" character as well, agreed that it brought a reactionary regime, agreed that it made life worse for Jews! [More so than moslems]. But it had national liberation character . But what was erased? Statues of Averroes stand from Cordova to Rome! Even Vatican has a mural , a tribute to Knowledge. From Spain , that was cleansed of Moslems, "Moorish Spain" conquered whole Europe. University of Paris became a seat of Knowledge From Thomas Aquinas , the "doctor of faith" to Bergson whole European thought and civilization represent the "reincarnation" of Moorish Spain , and they haven't erased it , they have owned it. for hundreds of years no one could utter name of Averroes in European Universities out of respect he had to be addressed only as "great philosopher" or "great teacher" Who has erased whom? Europe allows free thought , a legacy of Spain, they allow subversive, atheistic Jewish philosophers and scientist to live and work, in continuation of tradition of Moors of Spain, Dr Abus Salam had to beg for grave in Pakistan Only "Moslems" were Not Spain, we have more moslims today, but we dont have Spain--- Who has erased whom???? Spain , Spain and Spain——-

What has been erased in Spain? Islam? There could be other sides and reasons as well, Reconquestia had a “nationalist” character as well, agreed that it brought a reactionary regime, agreed that it made life worse for Jews! [More so than moslems]. But it had national liberation character . But what was erased? Statues of Averroes stand from Cordova to Rome! Even Vatican has a mural , a tribute to Knowledge. From Spain , that was cleansed of Moslems, “Moorish Spain” conquered whole Europe. University of Paris became a seat of Knowledge From Thomas Aquinas , the “doctor of faith” to
Bergson whole European thought and civilization represent the “reincarnation” of Moorish Spain , and they haven’t erased it , they have owned it. for hundreds of years no one could utter name of Averroes in European Universities out of respect he had to be addressed only as “great philosopher” or “great teacher”

Who has erased whom? Europe allows free thought , a legacy of Spain, they allow subversive, atheistic Jewish philosophers and scientist to live and work, in continuation of tradition of Moors of Spain, Dr Abus Salam had to beg for grave in Pakistan

Only “Moslems” were Not Spain, we have more moslims today, but we dont have Spain—

Who has erased whom????

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By: Abu Muhammad http://razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3312 Abu Muhammad Tue, 04 Dec 2007 15:27:39 +0000 http://www.razarumi.com/2007/12/03/on-raja-paurava-and-alexander/#comment-3312 That was beautiful Raza. I second Shaheryar, it should go on Pak Tea House. That was beautiful Raza. I second Shaheryar, it should go on Pak Tea House.

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