Of ignorance and knowledge - thinking of Professor Aghajari
I am a child whose teacher is love.
surely my master won’t let me grow
to be a fool*
I have been told that I am ignorant and air dangerous views when it comes to debates concerning religion. A post on Pakistaniat concerning the transformation of the “right” as the new “left” in Pakistan led to a rather exhausting debate on extremism in Islam.
The basic issue is that the ‘right’ - almost monopolistic - of knowing, defining and applying Islam is appropriated by a few and this is difficult for me to understand particularly when I believe that Islam is a universal religion that deals with man and God sans an institutionalized clergy. As the Iranian Professor Hashem Aghajari said, I refuse to be a monkey in blindly accepting what was interpreted nearly eight centuries ago under the shadows of an absolute state. Iqbal and Shariati have shown us the way ahead- we need to evolve and progress and adapt with the times. But this is a long, arduous journey.
Confronted by attacks and branded as an ignorant liberal, I had to respond. So I did and my last comment (hope this ends now) read as below:
Since you brought up the issue of Ijtihad – I wrote on this site that Ijtihad denoted interpretation and in this century the process as held by Allama Iqbal required re-interpretation of earlier jurisprudence. …
I quoted Iqbal’s famous lecture and let me quote him again:
‘The prophetic method of teaching, according to Shah Waliullah, is that, generally speaking, the law revealed by a prophet takes especial notice of the habits, ways, and peculiarities to whom he is specially sent. The Prophet who aims at all-embracing principles, however, can neither reveal different principles for different peoples, nor leaves them to work out their own rules of conduct. His method is to train one particular people, and to use them as a nucleus for the building up of a universal Shariat. In doing so he accentuates the principles underlying the social life of all mankind in the light of the specific habits of the people immediately before him. The Shariat values (Ahkam) resulting from this application (e.g. rules relating to penalties for crimes) are in a sense specific to that people; and since their observance is not an end in itself they cannot be strictly enforced in the case of future generations’ (The Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam, lecture 6) - by the way these lectures are banned in Saudi Arabia!
After all your comments and citing Tableeghi Jamaat ‘harmless’ etc., you want a definition of radical and extremist. You want to declare me as “ignorant”, of Islam and “very dangerous”, and SCRUTINIZE my every post, hence labeling my thought and faith itself as “suspect”, on the simple reason that I don’t agree with your interpretation of Islam or am not schooled in a manner that is acceptable to you?
So the small groups howsoever ‘harmless’ they appear to be, if appropriate the hegemony to define, interpret and implement Islam then this IS, akin to “extremism”.
The “Cricket Team”: Pakistan being a Muslim majority state, how many times have you seen people raise hue and cry on any one growing a beard, praying, or fasting? No one does. The criticism comes, when senior and influential members of team who are in position of controlling the careers of other players form a cult. The cult of the same mentality that ONLY accepts Tableeghi jamat’s version of Islam.
The newspapers reported: “ Dr Ashraf has also told the cricketers that there should be no pressure on players who don’t pray regularly: “I have told Inzamam there should be no perception among players that if they don’t pray, they will not be in the team”. Inzamam is supposed to have told him that there was no such pressure on anyone…”
On Muhammad Yousaf’s conversion from Christianity it is said that he was inspired by the collective prayers of the team: he probably did not want to be left out. A newspaper also report the Pakistan ‘s popular Christian singer, A Nayyar with some ‘evidence’ of coercion. I don’t know what’s truth but it did leave many question marks.
And PJ Mir, the media manager when aired his objection to team members over-doing their TJ beliefs was chided and a fatwa was issued against him. Subsequently he left the country.
I called Tableeghi jamat benign in the sense that it at the outset does not preach violence or militancy. However, as I said earlier it is an organization with theological affiliation the Deobandi sect (that is by the way a minority sect in Pakistan). Many things which Deobandis preach as “Islam” is not the Islam understood by many others like the Baralevi majority of Pakistan. The hegemony that Tableeghi Jamat wants to exercise in Pakistan is disturbing to say the least.
Adnan wrote:
“The other misconception is tableeghis means students of madrassahs while in reality this is not true. Most of members of tableeghi parties belong to various field of life. from Engineer to Architect, all are free to join. madrassah students are rather busy in their schools and they can’t participate tableegh due to its mobility since most of their members are in journey most of the time”
Tableegi jamat is the “open-front” or popular face of Deobandi tehrik. It attempts to infiltrate into the centers of power. For instance the failed coup leaders in the 1990s, officers like General Mustansir Billah and others, were tableeghis and the government they wanted to make was also tableeghi jamat oriented clergy.
All the Sunni sectarian organizations have had links with Tableeghi jamat, until recently (when his outfit was banned) Moulana Masood Azhar used to have a camp at Raiwind ijtama, so did Haq Nawaz Jhangvi. The slogans were chanted “sur buland sur buland deoband deoband”…
Junaid Jamshed, had every right to do what he wants to do, but he HAD NO right to call Music haram and “satanic life style”. He is not the Pope, nor are Raiwind , Binori Town and Haqqania , Islam’s Vatican! This is extremism that you call Music “haram”, humiliating all those Sunni Muslims who revere saints who practiced music and qawalli.
Shoaib Mansoor did not go to Sindh High Court to force Junaid Jamshaid to play the guitar but Binori Town did go to Sindh High court to force Shoaib Mansoor from showing his movie, Khuda Ke Liye esp when it showed what Shoaib thought was a valid “Islamic Point of view”.
that is extremism!
How many Aga Khanis do we know who have started a petition to stop Raiwind Ijtima in Pakistan or to declare non Ismaili Muslims as “non Muslims?” But from Jamat e Islami to Binori town – the latter are another variant of TJ - have launched movement to declare Ismails non Muslims. That is extremism.
How many Bohris you know who have told you that if you don’t wear a cap you are not a true Muslim. I have been told by Tableeghi friends that if I don’t have a stereotypical appearance, I am not a true practising Muslim, even having a “collar” is haraam they told me once—-this is extremism!
When Al Huda preaches a system where covering face becomes most important part of Islamic identity , it is extremism because they fail to tell you that Abu Hanifa , the Imam of majority of Pakistani Muslims considered it to be “non essential” -
Even abroad (like the UK), the stalls outside the mosques where Tableeghis gather for weekly activity have literature that condemns Sufism as “Qabar parasti”, and declares Shias as non-muslims, every year in Raiwind ijtima Police confiscates loads of sectarian literature that is meant to flow freelu. Just scan the new papers and you will find small news items hidden in 3rd or 4rth page of news papers saying so.
I have disagreed with you both, I have given my point of view, my views but I have not called you ignorant, nor have suspected your faith, have not called my understanding of Islam as only “true” or correct version of Islam.
I hope you will know what is extremism - and difference of opinion!!!
* Rumi translated by Nader Khalili
November 21st, 2007
in
Blog Babble, Religion, Islam, Middle East, Iran, Islamophobia, All My Posts, On Pakistan, fundamentalism |
November 21st, 2007 at 9:49 pm
Hi RR, I was following this discussion on ATP, and you were logically superior and eloquent.
having said that and despite the fact that i agree almost entirely with the content of your comments, maybe you did overdo the generalizations in your initial comment.
PS:Adnan is not the person you want to engage in a balanced, open, logic and fact based debate.
November 22nd, 2007 at 4:27 am
Thanks for stopping by at Jahane Rumi -Grateful for your comments -:) - however, please do see my last comment where I explain a little more
salaam and keep visiting please
November 22nd, 2007 at 8:06 am
Raza, tablighis..er, you know where I’m writing from, right? The less said about those idiots* the better. (*=I’m tempted to throw in a few Punjabi expletives here!).
I think teh word is ‘relatively benign’..and that too until they’ve “infiltrated”. Then we can look forward to hours of Zakir Naika dn Ahmed deedat on t.v…or maybe they will just burn all the television sets (given the crappy standards of Ptv I might actually join them!)
November 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Raza
someone else told me about your this rant which is REACTION of prolly my posts? It seems I stried your mind a lot.
Cleverly you preferred NOT to answer my comments of ATP and you ran away by saying ,”lets agree to disagree”. If you disagree then why hue and cry?
Adnan is not the person you want to engage in a balanced, open, logic and fact based debate.
me is Illogic and fictitious? If my question which I asked Raza are ILLOGICAL then there is some “Chirand” in your thinking process. Thankyou
*shakes head*
November 22nd, 2007 at 6:00 pm
[…] The comments by Raza caused a backlash by some individuals. It wasn’t long before accusations of ignorance and arrogant liberalism started flying. An important aspect of this debated revolved around the topic of the definition of extremism. It was argued that ‘liberals’ are too keen to use the label of ‘extremist’ to define any group of Muslims whose dogma differs from the liberal ideology. The defenders of the Tableeghi Jamaat quickly pounced upon this opportunity to announce that the definition of extremism was vague and was often used to discriminate against people who are simply attempting to practice their religion. It was also mentioned that the various parties identified by Raza in his original comment including the Tableeghi Jamaat, cricketers, the media, and Al-Huda were not extremists in any way. An eloquent and final reply to these arguments was recently posted on Jahane Rumi. […]
November 23rd, 2007 at 3:25 am
Raza, I feel sorry for you kaka.
You assume that these chaps *can* actually discuss things beyond their little pamphlets.
What do these Johnnies have to say except: join us in prayers, and everything else is “wordly”. So, the country could be under a dictatorship and they just would shrug their shoulders. I’ve even met one who told me that the Tablighis are sufis (God forbid!).
The people you talk about outside mosques with their stalls are a damned nuisance. In England they were saying that participating in elections is “haram”. I don’t know why those buggers don’t head back off to Saudi. I’m sure they’d be very happy there.
I dunno Raza, the traditions of tolerance that we grew up with are giving way to such people. But we’re living in an age when the *relatively* benign face of extremism-the al Hudas, the Tablighis, and what not-can almost pass off as the least worse of all evils.
Take care,
b.
November 23rd, 2007 at 5:22 am
I’m reminded of one of my favorite quotes -
“My atheism, like that of Spinoza, is true piety towards the universe and denies only gods fashioned by men in their own image to be servants of their human interests.”
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:01 am
Oh My God! I see that everyone is now coming up with his own post to pat on Raza’s back-LOL. shayed “Thaa” kar k dil par lagi hey.
Obviously definition of extremism and tolerance could be re-intrepetated according to liberal idea of Ijtehad. Hence if a person like Raza declares his “opponents” extremist, its called enlightenment while if someone refutes baseless claim or even use same tone against liberals, it’s called “narrow-mindness” or “intolerant or extreme point of view”. No wonder Ad-hominem fallacy has become “open-mindness” among liberals or may be someone has already redefined Hypocrisy? If justifying personal fantasies in the name of religion is progress and enlightenment then I think you people are just fooling to yourself rather to others.
Anyways, Raza needed some support to back him up and I am glad to know he did find few friends to console him.
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:19 am
Billo
You are so right - we are relics of a different era or perhaps we share a different view of things.. I agree that these seemingly benign faces of a phenomena are far more acceptable than others who have thrown us into the melting pot of racism, power politics with a branded religious identity..
Shaan
that was an awesome quote..
Cubano: thanks for the post - it made me smile and also happy that I was not the only ‘ignorant’ one..
Adnan Mian: Your rant against liberal may have merits in its own but I dont think that I for one am comfortable with this title.
I’d rather be called as a rationalist or worse a progressive Muslim..
acha, ab hamay bhee bolnay ka mauqa do -
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:35 am
Raza , greatly amused by the rant. Really rather old hat , if you ask me. I don’t think that some people understand that ‘liberal’ is a temperament, not an ideology.
These people are, of course, the greatest ‘fantasits’ around (what else is bin Laden but someone who lives in a virtual reality)?
Same with these blighters-but to a lesser extent: Cut off from the world and society. Perhaps a dose of Gibbon would do them so good. What did he say about ‘folly’ again?
M.Asad has a great chapter in Road to Mecca on how the zeal of the fanatics turns into its opposite. “He who would play the angel ends up playing the beast”.
Anyway, I’ve got nothing against them. Just wish they’d pick up their ‘lotas’ and their bloody mess when they return to their ‘caves’.
Salaams,
b.
November 23rd, 2007 at 6:37 am
Raza later replied me on ATP but ATP has policy to moderate every comment which they dislike, I am replying here to him about Tableeghi part:
Speaking of tableeghi style of Islam, do you even know that Barelvis copied the concept of Tableeghis and established a center at Sabzi Mandi called “Faizan-e-Madina” where all Green Turban guys gather? They also copied RaiWind concept and started “Dawat-e-Islami” in Multan and do you know why? because those guys were impressed(or worried) this type of preaching and they started their own version on same lines?
Bhai Raza kuch barelvio k baray me bhe kharab rakh lia karo. sara waqt idher udher k gossips jama karne me guzar detey ho- LOL
Bhai tum bolo, cheekho aur kuch bhe karo but ghusa nikalana k lie attack k tor par posts tu na karo- LOL
November 23rd, 2007 at 7:11 am
You reminded me an old post of mine when deobandis were declared kafirs. Clickety
Then this “Fatwa”
tinyurl.com/ypr9×7
Now I will be called Illogical, fictitious just because I am telling something which EXISTS? Wah bhye! Ever heard? . Those who live in glasshouses don’t throw stones on others
Who am I to object what you write? but when you refer someone or quote someone then you should not get pissed if he/she replies. If you want to hear “good words” then you are free to block comments by those who oppose you?
November 23rd, 2007 at 8:25 am
“Cubano: thanks for the post - it made me smile and also happy that I was not the only ‘ignorant’ one..”
We are all ignorant Raza. The process of learning never ends otherwise there wouldn’t be much left to live for…:)
November 23rd, 2007 at 9:01 am
I always try to believe the best of everybody — it saves so much trouble.
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:43 pm
“Adnan Mian: Your rant against liberal may have merits in its own but I dont think that I for one am comfortable with this title.
I’d rather be called as a rationalist or worse a progressive Muslim..”
Raza give me a break. for them all is same! you think they know what liberalism, or rationalism means? lolz or they are aware of differences between the left and Liberals? for them they are “bloody seculars” or “agents of jews” lolz
Anyways i think you have presented a good case . you know Iqbal identified this lot a long time ago , deen e mullah fi sabeel allah fasad. they cant disscuss , they can only terrorize .
November 23rd, 2007 at 12:54 pm
“Speaking of tableeghi style of Islam, do you even know that Barelvis copied the concept of Tableeghis and established a center at Sabzi Mandi called “Faizan-e-Madina” where all Green Turban guys gather? They also copied RaiWind concept and started “Dawat-e-Islami” in Multan and do you know why? because those guys were impressed(or worried) this type of preaching and they started their own version on same lines?
Bhai Raza kuch barelvio k baray me bhe kharab rakh lia karo. sara waqt idher udher k gossips jama karne me guzar detey ho- LOL
Bhai tum bolo, cheekho aur kuch bhe karo but ghusa nikalana k lie attack k tor par posts tu na karo- LOL”
I strongly protest , that such a sectarian remark was published.