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	<title>Comments on: Darlymple on India and Pakistan</title>
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	<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/</link>
	<description>In search of the unsearchable: O, my soul! where would you find your house?</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 20:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: gulnaz</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2566</link>
		<dc:creator>gulnaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Aug 2007 21:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2566</guid>
		<description>education is critical!  its the backbone of infrastructure of a country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>education is critical!  its the backbone of infrastructure of a country.</p>
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		<title>By: The Olive Ream</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2558</link>
		<dc:creator>The Olive Ream</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 19:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2558</guid>
		<description>Extremely relevant post. Dalrymple has great insight on the subcontinent because of his impeccable research. He clearly points out what we all already know but even then when you read the stats on the dire state of education in Pakistan you are in shock. The government has completely let us down in this, and many other, regards.

I had the opportunity of spending an evening with Dalrymple once here in Dubai. A very interesting personality..although I remember he spent most his time using my brother's computer  to access the net.  Probably was doing research for his next book. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Extremely relevant post. Dalrymple has great insight on the subcontinent because of his impeccable research. He clearly points out what we all already know but even then when you read the stats on the dire state of education in Pakistan you are in shock. The government has completely let us down in this, and many other, regards.</p>
<p>I had the opportunity of spending an evening with Dalrymple once here in Dubai. A very interesting personality..although I remember he spent most his time using my brother&#8217;s computer  to access the net.  Probably was doing research for his next book. <img src='http://www.razarumi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: RR</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2556</link>
		<dc:creator>RR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2556</guid>
		<description>Nauman: your comment is much appreciated. I agree with your points that the manner of partition was unbecoming. The mass migration, deaths and the suffering were too heart-wrenching. And I also agree that we (the two countries) should have maintained good relations. Alas, the record on that front is also not that encouraging. Thanks a lot for a comprehensive response.

BD: You were quick to point out the root of all problems - the unequal distribution of assets and resources. Well, the naxalite solution is a little extreme :)

GA: interesting scenario - cool idea. I need to think about that.

Id: Well, what can we say about this. Unfortunately, the education system needs a major surgery - reform would not yield results.

Good to hear the reference of 'Snow' - another great book -. The Swat situation is terrible but it thankfully does not represent the majority view. So there is hope- :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nauman: your comment is much appreciated. I agree with your points that the manner of partition was unbecoming. The mass migration, deaths and the suffering were too heart-wrenching. And I also agree that we (the two countries) should have maintained good relations. Alas, the record on that front is also not that encouraging. Thanks a lot for a comprehensive response.</p>
<p>BD: You were quick to point out the root of all problems - the unequal distribution of assets and resources. Well, the naxalite solution is a little extreme <img src='http://www.razarumi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>GA: interesting scenario - cool idea. I need to think about that.</p>
<p>Id: Well, what can we say about this. Unfortunately, the education system needs a major surgery - reform would not yield results.</p>
<p>Good to hear the reference of &#8216;Snow&#8217; - another great book -. The Swat situation is terrible but it thankfully does not represent the majority view. So there is hope- <img src='http://www.razarumi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: I Me My</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2555</link>
		<dc:creator>I Me My</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 15:28:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2555</guid>
		<description>A very informative and comprehensive read.
 
It's a pity that the the Public School Education in Pakistan has failed, and as a result people are opting to send their children to madrasas that offer a faith based curriculum. Also, the literacy statistics mentioned in the article are shocking and explain many a woes that the country is facing today.

As for Maulana Fauzalullah... his comment reminds me of the situation in Nobel Laueate Orhan Pamuk's novel "Snow" where a group of young Turkish girls commit suicide apparently because they are prevented from wearing the veil by the local school board.

May the people of Swat see the light of reason and allow their future female citizens to comprehend their world as literate and educated individuals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very informative and comprehensive read.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a pity that the the Public School Education in Pakistan has failed, and as a result people are opting to send their children to madrasas that offer a faith based curriculum. Also, the literacy statistics mentioned in the article are shocking and explain many a woes that the country is facing today.</p>
<p>As for Maulana Fauzalullah&#8230; his comment reminds me of the situation in Nobel Laueate Orhan Pamuk&#8217;s novel &#8220;Snow&#8221; where a group of young Turkish girls commit suicide apparently because they are prevented from wearing the veil by the local school board.</p>
<p>May the people of Swat see the light of reason and allow their future female citizens to comprehend their world as literate and educated individuals.</p>
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		<title>By: cubano</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2553</link>
		<dc:creator>cubano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:41:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2553</guid>
		<description>"Letâ€™s say that if you are a good swimmer and you see three people drowning in a sea. Using your two hands you will try your best to save two of them and hope that the third one may be saved by someone else."

Perhaps the third didn't want to be saved and perhaps one of the two that were saved realized that their savior later turned out to be their tormentor so decided to jump back into the water rather than accepting a life of agony with the savior, leaving the savior scratching his head wondering what went wrong :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Letâ€™s say that if you are a good swimmer and you see three people drowning in a sea. Using your two hands you will try your best to save two of them and hope that the third one may be saved by someone else.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps the third didn&#8217;t want to be saved and perhaps one of the two that were saved realized that their savior later turned out to be their tormentor so decided to jump back into the water rather than accepting a life of agony with the savior, leaving the savior scratching his head wondering what went wrong <img src='http://www.razarumi.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: BD</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2551</link>
		<dc:creator>BD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 11:29:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2551</guid>
		<description>Quoting from the article:
&lt;blockquote&gt;One is the fundamental flaw in Pakistan's political system. Democracy has never thrived here, at least in part because landowning remains almost the only social base from which politicians can emerge.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

At the risk of being labeled a commie, I can't help but agree with the author on this. I always keep saying 'pakistan should have had its own version of &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalbari" rel="nofollow"&gt;naxalbari&lt;/a&gt;'</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quoting from the article:</p>
<blockquote><p>One is the fundamental flaw in Pakistan&#8217;s political system. Democracy has never thrived here, at least in part because landowning remains almost the only social base from which politicians can emerge.</p></blockquote>
<p>At the risk of being labeled a commie, I can&#8217;t help but agree with the author on this. I always keep saying &#8216;pakistan should have had its own version of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naxalbari" rel="nofollow">naxalbari</a>&#8216;</p>
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		<title>By: Nauman</title>
		<link>http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2549</link>
		<dc:creator>Nauman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Aug 2007 10:57:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.razarumi.com/2007/08/19/darlymple-on-india-and-pakistan/#comment-2549</guid>
		<description>Nice post. You asked me a good question that â€œa tricky question is what about those who were left behind in India - they are not a small number. By and large as big as the muslim populations on in Pak and Bangladesh. Somewhere, the "muslims' project went wrong?â€

I would like to explain this by way of an analogy. Letâ€™s say that if you are a good swimmer and you see three people drowning in a sea. Using your two hands you will try your best to save two of them and hope that the third one may be saved by someone else. Same applies to the case of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indian Muslims. Roughly each of these groups is composed of 150 million people. Jinnah and Muslim League strived for the independence of two-thirds of the population of subcontinental Muslims. Thanks to their efforts 300 million Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh now live in independent states. As to the remaining 150 million Indian Muslims they are so dispersed in the Hindu majority areas that we canâ€™t demand a separate homeland for them. But the good thing is that India is a secular and democratic country. So the rights of the minorities are protected there. Secularism is an ideal. And ground realities are some times different from ideal situation. Complete separation of religion and society is a myth. Individuals have religions and beliefs, society is an assemblage of individuals therefore our religion and beliefs always play a greater or lesser role in our society.

But I agree that Pakistan project went wrong somewhere. It was not the demand for a separate homeland for the Muslims of subcontinent which was unfair. The right of self-determination is an inalienable right of people who think themselves as different and distinct. But they way that project was carried out led to deaths of hundreds of thousands and a mass migration of 12 million Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs. Muslims, Hindus and British all are to be blamed for this terrible human catastrophe. The original date for independence was set to be June 1948 but on 3rd June 1947 it was announced that British will leave India within two months. It was not possible to make proper arrangements and create conditions of security and stability in such a short time to protect the minorities during that upheaval. Indians blame Jinnah and Muslim League for this inter-communal conflict. We blame Hindus and Mountbatten for not carrying out this project in a proper manner. Itâ€™s a debatable question and it is interpreted in a subjective way.

Another thing that went wrong is the hostility between the newly created states of India and Pakistan. It shouldnâ€™t have happened. We should have established good neighborly relations not the least for 150 million Muslims who still reside in India and keeping in mind the fact that the demand for Pakistan originated from the Muslim-minority provinces of India. But the scars of intercommunal conflict on the eve of independence and then the Kashmir dispute marred our relations with India. Today Pakistan is a reality and we have also managed to establish a balance of power with India. We have fought enough wars. Now its time to have peace in the region. And as William Dalrymple rightly pointed out we need to spend more on our education and socioeconomic development than on our defense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. You asked me a good question that â€œa tricky question is what about those who were left behind in India - they are not a small number. By and large as big as the muslim populations on in Pak and Bangladesh. Somewhere, the &#8220;muslims&#8217; project went wrong?â€</p>
<p>I would like to explain this by way of an analogy. Letâ€™s say that if you are a good swimmer and you see three people drowning in a sea. Using your two hands you will try your best to save two of them and hope that the third one may be saved by someone else. Same applies to the case of Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Indian Muslims. Roughly each of these groups is composed of 150 million people. Jinnah and Muslim League strived for the independence of two-thirds of the population of subcontinental Muslims. Thanks to their efforts 300 million Muslims of Pakistan and Bangladesh now live in independent states. As to the remaining 150 million Indian Muslims they are so dispersed in the Hindu majority areas that we canâ€™t demand a separate homeland for them. But the good thing is that India is a secular and democratic country. So the rights of the minorities are protected there. Secularism is an ideal. And ground realities are some times different from ideal situation. Complete separation of religion and society is a myth. Individuals have religions and beliefs, society is an assemblage of individuals therefore our religion and beliefs always play a greater or lesser role in our society.</p>
<p>But I agree that Pakistan project went wrong somewhere. It was not the demand for a separate homeland for the Muslims of subcontinent which was unfair. The right of self-determination is an inalienable right of people who think themselves as different and distinct. But they way that project was carried out led to deaths of hundreds of thousands and a mass migration of 12 million Muslims, Hindus and Sikhs. Muslims, Hindus and British all are to be blamed for this terrible human catastrophe. The original date for independence was set to be June 1948 but on 3rd June 1947 it was announced that British will leave India within two months. It was not possible to make proper arrangements and create conditions of security and stability in such a short time to protect the minorities during that upheaval. Indians blame Jinnah and Muslim League for this inter-communal conflict. We blame Hindus and Mountbatten for not carrying out this project in a proper manner. Itâ€™s a debatable question and it is interpreted in a subjective way.</p>
<p>Another thing that went wrong is the hostility between the newly created states of India and Pakistan. It shouldnâ€™t have happened. We should have established good neighborly relations not the least for 150 million Muslims who still reside in India and keeping in mind the fact that the demand for Pakistan originated from the Muslim-minority provinces of India. But the scars of intercommunal conflict on the eve of independence and then the Kashmir dispute marred our relations with India. Today Pakistan is a reality and we have also managed to establish a balance of power with India. We have fought enough wars. Now its time to have peace in the region. And as William Dalrymple rightly pointed out we need to spend more on our education and socioeconomic development than on our defense.</p>
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